261: Why you need an online presence as a freelancer, VA or SMM | Amy Posner

Treat your business like a business! 

If you are a freelancer, VA or Social Media Marketer, you also need to show up online! 

Fill up your pipeline and create a business that will help you get out of the feast and famine cycle. We have an amazing freelancer mentor, Amy Posner with 30 years of experience to share with you! 

This is part of our new campaign - Around the World in 90 days - your ticket to good content marketing! 

Welcome aboard flight CQM222, I am your pilot, Mariah - you have your ticket to good content marketing in hand.

While on this flight the flight attendants will be here to assist you to get off the content creation hamster wheel and onto a new way of marketing to help you live a more freedom-based lifestyle. 

Each week you will be given a new stamp in your passport and by the end of the 90 days you will be on your way to explore the world of Content Marketing as a solo traveller. 

This is week eleven - get ready, it is going to be a wild ride! 

If you LOVED this part of your trip (the episode), make sure you share this on your Instagram stories and tag us @contentqueenmariah and @amyrposner. 

⁠GET ACCESS TO OUR FREE AUDIO GUIDE - CONTENT STRATEGY IN YOUR EARS⁠

KEY EPISODE TAKEAWAYS 👇

✨ Do’s and Don’ts as a freelancer 

✨ How to grow your business to avoid the feast and famine cycle 

✨ Why you need to build an online presence

SHOW RESOURCES 👇

If you like this episode, don't forget to share it to your Instagram stories and tag me⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ @contentqueenmariah⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠!

Other than that, enjoy - chat next week 💕

ABOUT THE GUEST

Amy Posner is a seasoned online entrepreneur and business coach who helps digital creative freelancers build breakthrough businesses. 

Over her 30-year career, Amy has launched six successful businesses (five of which are still in business today!) and mentored thousands of freelancers to success. Now, she focuses on empowering freelancers to grow the business they want by teaching them the skills they need to attract the right clients – something she teaches in her Complete Breakthrough Freelancer course and as co-host of the Business Badassery podcast.

Amy has been featured on Copyhackers and as a guest on several top podcasts, including The Copywriter Club, Copy Chief Radio, and The Deliberate Freelancer, among others. 

In her free time, you’ll find Amy adventuring around her hometown of Olympia, raising funds for pet cancer treatment, and enjoying Washington’s natural beauty.

PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION

This is your pilot speaking. My name is Mariah. And welcome to this special series of the content queen podcast. You have boarded flight CQM 222, and you have in your hand, your ticket to good content marketing. We hope you have a safe journey on this 90 day trip strap in and get ready to experience all the strategy and learnings you need to enter 2025 with the direction on how to create content that is unique to you and your business.

While on board, you'll have complimentary access to all the learnings. that will help you attract your own new passengers to grow and expand your trip. While on this flight, the flight attendants will be here to assist you get off the content creation hamster wheel and on to a new way of marketing to help you live a more freedom based lifestyle.

Each week you'll be given a new stamp on your passport and by the end of the 90 days you'll be on your way to explore the world of content marketing as a solo traveller. Seatbelts on, we are ready to take off. Hello, gang! Alright, freelancers, VAs, social media marketers  This episode is for you. If you are a business owner though, worth a listen, good to get the ins and outs.

But also I think some of the advice that this guest gives is very, very tangible. So.  You're in for a treat. I do want to note that we talk a lot about showing up online, and one of the biggest ways and easiest ways to have a plan to show up is to create a strategy. So we have our free content audio guide, which is in your ears content strategy.

If you want to learn the basics 101, even if you're a freelancer, a VA, social media marketer, and you're sort of doing social media for clients, it's a really good, valuable resource. Um, training for you as well, but we have to show up as freelancers. I started freelancing in 2017 and it wasn't until I started creating my own content and doing my own marketing that I really saw the business take off.

So it's really important to showcase what you do and treat your business like a business, not that you're just a freelancer. So let's jump in and chat with today's guest. I think you're in for an absolute treat. Because this woman has extensive experience and so much to teach freelancers. So Amy Posner is a seasoned online entrepreneur and business coach who helps digital creative freelancers.

Build breakthrough businesses with over 30 years experience. Amy has launched six successful businesses, five of them, which is still currently running and has mentored thousands of freelancers. She now focuses on empowering freelancers to grow the business that they want by teaching them the skills that they need to attract the right clients and something that she teaches in her complete breakthrough freelancer course.

And she's also the co host of a podcast. Amy has been featured on Copyhackers  and has been a guest on many a podcast, including this one. And in her free time, she loves adventuring, raising money for pet cancer treatment and enjoying natural beauties around her. So let's talk with Amy. You're going to get a lot of value from this one.

Welcome Amy to the podcast. I'm so excited to have you on today. For the listeners, can you tell everyone who you are and what you do?  Yeah, sure I can. Um, so I am a business growth mentor. Um, I mostly work with digital creatives. Um, I also work with small business owners, but I've been a business owner myself for 30 years, kind of a serial entrepreneur.

Um, so that's where my sort of bank of knowledge comes from the trenches. I'm not a, you know, an ivory tower kind of, kind of coach or mentor or, um, you know, an MBA or that sort of thing. So, um, Yeah. That's what I do.  Amazing. I love it. And I'd love, you just mentioned you've been in business for 30 years.

That is, you have a wealth of knowledge and I'd love to know how you got started in business. What did that look like? How did you get to where you are right now?  Well, it's a really funny story actually, um, I had a random job, um, in New York City and my boss and I would, used to, you know, sit around sometimes after work and talk about the business and talk about ideas.

And I had some ideas for growing the business and we implemented them and we, they worked and he asked me,  quite unexpectedly one day, you know, would you be interested in buying in and being a partner in the business? And came totally out of left field for me, had no thought about being a business owner.

Um, And interestingly, just a little side note, I grew up in a family business, never wanted to be in business. I wanted to be, you know, the creative one. But what I discovered was this business was really creative. You got to sort of invent things and test them and see if they worked. And so it was a really easy yes for me.

And that was the beginning of the whole, of the whole journey, but it was, you know, completely unexpected.  Yeah, I love that. I, I love hearing those stories because I think that happens a lot. We never,  you know, set our sights landing and trying to start a business and here we are making it all work. And I love what you say about it being creative because it's so true.

I didn't, I, Always wanted to do things that were very creative, but when you think of creativity, you always think writing and arts and things like that. And you naturally go down that path. And then you go, Oh, well, actually all the things within business are quite creative. And I guess the people that we're going to talk to today are the creative people that the freelancers, the, you know, creative individuals, um, social media marketers, VAs that are kind of out there.

Trying to build their business, but do what they love. And, you know, we've got anything from, um, graphic designers to copywriters, to all the things that that's their creative craft. Right. And I would love to talk a little bit more about  their journey and online presence for them. Cause I do talk about business owners as a whole, but I think  as a freelancer myself, it's like this online presence is so important.

Right. And I'd love to know.  How do you see that when you're helping different creatives build their business online?  Well, it's interesting. I mean, one of the things, you know, you, that you just pointed out is people start their business often cause they're like, they're interested in something and they're passionate about something and they're good about some good at something, but they.

Don't necessarily have the business skills, right? Like so you start something and then you're like, Oh, right. I need clients. I need to figure out pricing. I need to do X, Y, and Z as you would say, Z as we would say. Um, and so, you know, it's, it's actually one of the reasons I turned my focus to, to the business mentorship because I, like my big belief is like, you can be the best.

Craftsperson, the best creative in the world.  And if you don't have business skills, you just don't eat as well as the mediocre craftsperson who's got the business chops. So  what that has to do with being online specifically is, you know, is your presence, is your business presence. It's your, it's your chance to show who you are, to demonstrate your expertise.

Um, you know, we talk a lot in business and it's almost cliche at this point about, you know, building the know, like, and trust equation, but it's very real. People need to know, like, and trust you in order to do business with you. And your online presence is how you, you know, how you can cultivate that and sort of create your own, your own space and give people the opportunity to know who you are and what you stand for.

Yeah, wow, that it's so powerful because I really, I feel like in the beginning of my days as a freelancer, I was on Fifer, which is great platform, right? But you kind of limit yourself because you sell yourself for a price. So you price your creative genius and then people just hire you based off your price, basically.

And if you're the cheapest, you get hired. And then. Um, then they give feedback on your work for the lowest price that you delivered, and it can be quite, you know, whilst I love that platform because it got me where I am now, it can be, it's quite paralyzing  in a way because you're just trying to fight for a space, whereas you're On the online world, when I switched to building a social media presence, it's just that right.

People could get to know me and go like, Oh, I really want to work with Mariah because of X, Y, and Z. This is her knowledge, or this is why you can. I love what you say about, they want to know how much you care because that's so powerful in the online business space. When there's so much noise out there, how do we break through it?

Well. We show that we really care about what we do, right?  Yeah, and I mean, interestingly to that point, you know, I think there is a whole class of clients who aren't buying on price or don't want to buy on price. They want to buy on value and they want to buy on service. And so. You know, you want to break out of that, you know, I, that, that pricing prison kind of, because it's not,  it's, it doesn't allow you to do your best work.

I guess that's really, if I were to sum it up, that's, that's the bottom line. And I think that's really important for people to understand because, you know, the pricing can be a trap and it can be hard to break out of. And so  it's important to know that there, there are other things that people want and that it's not, it's not all about price at the end of the day.

Sure, it matters, but it's not even the first thing that matters.  Yeah. And it's actually, I was talking about this the other day, so I increased my price. Last year, and when it was lower, I'd have people questioning it and I've not once had someone question it since I've not once had someone asked me for a discount since I increased my price.

Isn't that interesting?  It's so interesting. And are you talking to different people? Yeah, I'm, yeah, I'm connecting with more of a soul aligned person, I imagine. And that like, you know, I'm big on energy, so I, I'm attracting those people because I'm saying, no, this is my worth. This is what I'm, and you know, you give so much more as a, as a service based provider when someone hires you because yeah, they hire you.

To do the service, but it's the relationship you give them, you know, how many times my clients, you know, voice note me because something's happening in their business and they just want a piece of advice. Just want to listen, even if it's not my zone of genius, you know, they just want, and because I'm a business owner as well, right.

I get it. Like I understand where they're coming from. I'm also the target audience of a lot of my clients as well. So they can also workshop things with me. So it's more than just what you provide. Like you just said, it's the value that you give. And I think that's really important to remember. When we're going out there and presenting our work, because we're also selling our personalities, right?

We're, we're selling ourselves in the weirdest way, but not, not so, um, you know, invasive, but we're, we're really selling our personality. And I think when we can show that online, people are getting a really beautiful taste of who we are. And that's really what it's about too.  Yeah, I agree. And I think there's other things that you can demonstrate because inside of that, you know, personality and who you are.

And there has to be a vibe and a click. I mean, you want to work with somebody that you connect with in whatever way that is or whatever that means for you. But like, there's other things like reliability. And, you know,  I think particularly in the freelance world, there's, you know, there's sort of this reputation of freelancers as flakes.

And yeah, and I mean, in some cases it's well deserved and it's not because people necessarily are flaky, but if they don't know how to run their business, they don't realize that people value, you know, doing what you say you're going to do and showing up on time and being reliable and giving people that sort of  experience of trust.

So they know that they're going to get what they pay for, which means they're often willing to pay a premium for that. And so it's just also tied up together, I think.  Yeah. And it's interesting. I've had, you know, you hear horror stories of your clients that have worked with freelancers that, you know, ghost them or, you know, and then they come back, you know, yeah, the would work.

Oh, I'm so sorry. This happened in my personal life. Like I had a serious operation in 2021. I had, I had organs removed. I did not ghost my clients. I made sure they knew what was going on. I shared the options that I had, like, I don't, you know what I mean, I know things come up in life, but it's just such a weird thing.

Like I, I have people, you know, even if it was my mum who could message my clients, I wanted to make sure that they knew what was going on. And I even had one of my, my good friends just be on my email so she could reply. Like there's so many things that you can put in place to make sure that you know, you don't ghost your client because it's your reputation as well.

And I think we forget that like, Oh, I'll never see this person again. So I'll get their money and do that service. And that's it. It's so much more than that. And I love that you, you highlight that. And I think being online, whether it's on social media or whatever it is to showcase your work, it gives you a chance for you to show that part of your personality and who you are in, in a way that you can't often do from a profile on Upwork  or something like that too.

No, and that kind of care is, is really important. I mean, I've had it happen to me. I've hired people and had them ghost and, you know, they will come back and say, Oh, well, you know, some awful thing happened and awful things happen. Life happens and that's fine. Just let me know. I'm fine.  You know, I'd be compassionate.

I'll care. I don't want you working for me if you, you know, X, Y, Z has happened. But at the same time, you know, I'm running a business and I want to know, you know, are you coming back? Will you do that? Um,  so I think, I think it's really important and that's, you know, I'm talking about the online presence. I mean, that's where you can demonstrate that over and over.

You can talk about that and you can demonstrate it through your actions, who you are, how you show up so that someone actually gets, gets a sense of you rather than, like you said, I mean, I mean, I suppose in a profile you can say that, but talk's cheap,  right?  You know, action like, show me, don't tell me. Um, and that, and that's where, you know, that's where you can actually do that.

Yeah, and I think, you know, showing that you can, whether it's consistently show up for your audience on social media, I think that shows a lot about a person as well too, right? Like, if you can, um, you know, to give a bit of context, like I've consistently had a social media presence since I started my business, even when I've had More clients, like I'm servicing up to 10 clients at the moment.

It's a lot of work, but one of the things that was really important for me was to make sure that I was consistently marketing my own business. One, because we don't want the pipeline to dry out as well, but also because I want my audience and anyone that works with me. Whether they're a current client now or whether they're a future client that I am learning always because I'm showing up.

I'm tell, I can't tell you to consistently show up as a, like a content marketer and then not do it myself. And I understand we often market our. These other people's business is better than our own, or we do a better service for someone else other than us. But we still have to show that we are actively trying to improve.

And I remember someone saying online, you know, I had a market to ask me, are there so many people out there? How can I stand out above the rest? She's like the fact that you're investing in courses, you're showing up on social media. That's how you're going to be continually be a better marketer. And I've seen it in my own and I can share my own experiences, right?

Like. A month, three months ago, my social media felt I didn't feel good about it, but then I did things and now I can teach what I did to feel better and create better content. So I think it's that concept of, you know, walk the walk, talk the talk, that kind of thing. Is that something that you would always preach against any creative being able to showcase online that you actually do what you tell other people to do or that you do for others?

Yeah. And I think, you know, the word that consistency is key.  And, and showing up and showing up regularly because one of the things, I mean, so people see that over time, but it's the thing that you said about the pipeline drying up too. I mean, I think it's very easy when you're too busy to be too busy, right?

To do the social media and you're, you know, you're servicing clients and you're doing all these things. But the truth is that's how you avoid feast and famine. Because you've got a consistent presence because you know what? You're going to need clients tomorrow. You're going to need them next month and you're going to need them next year.

And so if you've got a consistent voice, it's so funny. I mean, and I'm sure you've experienced this. There are people who come to you six months from now, a year from now. And they're like, Oh, when I started following you, you know, last year, or when you talked about X, Y, Z, you know, whatever, and, and you're thinking, Oh.

Or, or I've had people quote me back to me, you know, and you taught me this, and then I, you know, I've been doing this ever since. And it's like, wow, that really made an impression. But I had no idea. I didn't know they weren't following me. I've had people join my, my group coaching programs, for example, who said, oh, I've had my eye on you for two years.

'cause you show up and you've, you know, you've been talking about this, this and that. Um, I don't know that's happening. I know it now because it's been proven over time, but. It's the consistency and having a consistent voice and standing for something, um, that makes all the difference, I think, which is, you know, exactly what you just said and I said it in a way longer, more expanded form.

Yeah, but I love what you say when, you know, the people that are watching and you have no idea,  because that's like when you know. Everything's kind of working right and you don't, that's a problem because we're a very, I want it now society, right? Like we're just, that's how it is on social media. You know, no one's going without anything.

So now we're like, well. You know, I want that person to convert tomorrow and it's very interesting because what I find in the online space, um, as a retainer service based, I can convert a random to a, you know, near 2, 000 a month retainer, but to buy, you know, a group program at 300 or a course.  So much harder, right?

So isn't it interesting how you have those, you know, because, but when we're those people that just need something now, they're going to make that decision. Whereas like an online program, it's never going to go away. So people always like, Oh, I'll just hold on to that. But as a freelancer that offers a service, you have the potential to have endless leads always coming in.

If you just decide. I'm actually going to commit to doing some kind of marketing for myself because people always need someone and they're always wanting to not do it. So they would love to answer. I have, I have a client I've had for four years. I was one of her first hires because she's like, I don't want to do social media.

at all. I'm happy to do video. I'm happy to show up. I'm happy to do this, but I don't want to post it. I don't want to think about it. I want you to think about it. And she's referred me clients for the last four years. Cause she's like, I just don't want to do it. So we have that power. If we just like commit to showing up and it's actually not that big of a commitment.

If you think about it too.  No, it isn't and, and it's sort of, I mean, in a way it's the engine of your business. I mean, it's what drives everything forward. And I know sometimes it can seem onerous or it can seem like a lot to do, but  like you, you have to, you have to show up and do it. I mean, you have to, I think you have to take that kind of responsibility if you're going to own a business and you want to eat well and you want to, you know, not have, you know, moments where, or months even where you're panicked and, you know, wondering where everyone is and what happened, that's the effort you make.

And that's the effort that you make behind the scenes. And, you know, I mean, it's funny because it's not the exciting thing. It's not glamorous. It's very work person like. But that's your job. I mean, it's really a job. And you have to think of it that way. Even, you know, on the days when, Eh, it doesn't seem all that fun or all that interesting.

Or you, you know, you can even get bored with yourself. I mean, we all do sometimes, right? It's like, Oh, I'm tired of hearing me. But, but all the new people who haven't heard you before. All the people who, you know, like what you have to say. don't feel that way. And so I think for me, that was really helpful to realize it's part of my job, right?

It doesn't, it doesn't matter whether I love it today or I don't love it today. Um, It's my job and it's, it's, it's, it's, it's really the fuel that, you know, drives the engine of my business. So,  so you do it and,  and you do it consistently. Again, I think the consistency, consistent, yeah, consistency, I think is the, is the key, key factor in that, um, you can't, you know, you can't rush in and like do it really well for three months and then disappear and do it really well for a month.

You know, you have to, you just have to find the way to keep, you know, to keep doing it and keep showing up.  And I find it happens in the new year, right? Like in January, well, especially in Australia, because that's kind of like a reset. It's our, like, summer, um, you know, people go like, all right, let's hit the ground running, you know, it's like new for everything.

Whereas I know, like, you know, in the northern hemisphere, because the summer quite, you kind of have two new years, I feel like we only get one. Um, but people always like, yep, let's do it. And they go.  And they, and they commit to too much, right? So then they go, I'm going to shop every day, like, I'm going to post three times a day, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that.

And then by like March, they're just completely like, I hate that, I never want to see it. So it's all about finding what's going to work for you. And that is a journey that changes all the time, I think, like, even for me. I've always just like posted every day on Instagram, for example. And then I got to the point where I was like, I wonder if I do every second day and now I have ads running.

So like, I've built my business to the point where I can have something kind of running in the background, which is a dream. Right. And I did every second day. And I was like, and then I could create more  stuff. I really loved to create like posts that I really like felt like I could give my energy to, which I think people see.

And then guess what? Nothing changed. The reach was the same. The engagement was the same. And I was like, and I'm spending half the time, but I had to build that consistency. I had to learn before I could start to tweak and change. And I think we go all in full ham and then don't learn anything and then just go, okay, this is too much.

We commit to a podcast. We have a blog. We've got this, we've got that, which I did at the beginning and I burnt out very quickly. And then we go, hang on, let's bring it all back and have some kind of plan or strategy so we can actually follow it. Do you, did you have the same experience yourself or have you seen people just go like all in and then by, you know, two, three months, as you said, they're just.

Yeah, I do. And I think, you know, you hit on something really important. Consistency matters more than frequency.  It's not about three times a day. It's not, it's about you being able to show up at the, at the frequency that you're able to do consistently. Um, and like, like, yeah, we all go through that. It's like, I'm going to do all the things and you can't do all the things effectively.

You just can't because part of, part of showing up on social media isn't just posting, it's actually interacting and connecting with people. And so it's not like, you know, like a hit and run, like, Oh, I'm going to throw this up. See you later. I'll come back tomorrow. Throw something up. No, it's, and you certainly can't do that.

In multiple channels, most of us can't, like, you know, I mean, actually pay attention. And so I think it's much more important to do one, do it well, do it right, than it is to be all over the place. And I know there, there's a temptation because you don't necessarily know what's going to work. So, okay, experiment, find out what works and then do what you know you can handle.

And it's interesting. My main platform is LinkedIn. It's been very effective for me. And this past August, I made a conscious decision. I just wanted to take some time off and I was curious because I'd been so consistent all year, what would happen? And my numbers tank because I wasn't consistent. Um, and it was really interesting to see what happened and then I, and how long it took for me to come back.

and bring, you know, both the platform and the algorithm and the, you know, the eyeballs of people who kind of forgot about me in the interim. That was a big lesson. It was, you know, and it's not to say I wouldn't do it again or I wouldn't take time off again, but I might do it differently. I might do what you did.

Um, you know, when you had a surgery and you're offline and having a, you know, having a friend check, you know, having your mom answer your emails, whatever it's going to be like my, I realized how important the, the consistent presence was, presence was, and I knew it. And in a way I wanted to test it. I wanted to see, you know, what would happen.

Um, and I'll tell you the other thing that happened was it was really hard to come back and be consistent. It took me a heavy lift in September because I just wasn't habituated anymore and it was like, okay, you know, I'm like, ah, ah, like kind of dragging my heels. Um, yeah, kind of interesting. Very interesting.

It's like going to, I'm finding that with exercise at the moment, um, you know, getting back into habit. I read, um, Atomic Habits by James Clear and that was like really good, but you know, it's so true. You can really, and it's like anything. And also I think what happens is on touching that on sort of habits when things are good.

So for example, you're a freelancer or business owner, you've got heaps of leads. And you do go, Oh, I might take a break. Cause I'm really busy. Then you go, I don't really need like the clients. Cause I've got heaps. And then all of a sudden, you know, as we talked about the pipeline, but I always find it's like, when things are good, we let things slip.

So like it's, and then when things are not great, that's when we go, Oh my God, I've got to make a change, but you're in the mud. So it's too hard to lift out of it. And I think. That happens a lot with me with like, even like my morning ritual, journaling, I don't have anything to journal about because I feel really good, but they're the moments you've got to journal because they're the moments where you have the biggest breakthroughs.

And I think it's the same with online presence. If things are good in your business and you're like, Oh, I could. you know, save some time, not do that. That's when you get, you know, complacent and it's so much harder to, to get back on. Um, but I wanted to ask you just on this with, um, I found something that really helped me in my business as a freelancer is when I actually started Outsourcing myself when I had my own VA and actually it taught me two things.

It taught me how good of an experience it is and I could sell my services better because I knew that feeling of outsourcing something and how great it was. I could then. Learn how to be a better leader, which then would help me lead my clients as well. So when you're working with any freelancer or, um, general business owner, even what is your take on outsourcing, you know, when's too soon.

Like what sort of things should we look at outsourcing? Cause I just found for me, obviously I made a few mistakes in the beginning cause we all do, but since having that extra support, it allows me to be better at what I do. And even with things like online presence, I show up. Someone else schedules it for me, it's great.

And it just allows me to just not think about that one thing and things go out without, you know, having to put that extra level of energy into it.  Yeah, I think, I think there's a couple of indicators, and I'm not a fan, I know some people are, you know, hire immediately, I, I think you need to know all of the things yourself, so you even know how they work, um, but I, I think there's two real indicators.

One is,  like, the value of the task. You know, if you're charging, I don't know, fifty or a hundred dollars an hour, outsource the ten or twenty dollar an hour tasks, like, be really careful, mindful about where your money comes from and the energy that you're spending. So, I think that's,  you know. Because, like, on the one hand, we can, you know, want to offload things too quickly, and on the other hand, we can be very, we can hold very tight because, you know, no one can do it as good as me, and it won't take me that long, and it, and there's an, there's an energy cost for everything.

So,  you know, and, you know, you're, we tend to be really good at our expertise and you can't really multitask. That's a, you know, that's a fiction. And so every time you switch focus, you lose time and, and, you know, especially in freelance world, time is money because you're, you know, you're, you only have a limited amount and you can only do a certain amount of client work.

So I think you have to be really mindful of that and don't be too.  I don't know, too sure that you're the only person who can do the thing in your business. It may take time to find the right person, but, but the right people are out there. So I think that's, that's one indicator. And I think the other thing is things that you genuinely do not like.

And, and because I think the things that we don't like, we tend not to be good at.  And so. And I think that translates, right? Like, like the energy of that comes through, or, or just the, you know, the sort of grittiness of it. Um, and I think you have to be really careful. I mean, obviously, we know when you're new, you can't say, well, I hate this, and I hate that, and you can outsource it all, because you don't have the income yet.

But be mindful as you're going along. Like, what's, what is, what are the things that you don't enjoy? Because conversely, what I see a lot is we tend to dismiss the things that come really easily to us, right? Like, oh, anybody can do that, or that's so easy, or who's going to pay me for that? And it's very often your superpower.

Because the things, the things that you can do quickly are often the things that you like best, and they're often your most profitable activities. So, I think Sort of on both sides of the equation, I think it's being mindful about, you know, what you like, what you're getting paid for, what you're good at, and where somebody else might just be better than you are at doing the thing.

Because, you know, you can't be expert in everything. And I'll say one more thing, you know, if there are more brains in your business, you know, you're, you're better off. Because, I mean, one brain can only do so much, no matter how powerful or great your brain is. Or your expertise, you know, other eyeballs, other input can, can just be enormously helpful.

Hmm. That is a very, very good point. You know, more brains is better than one because I think we have this and it's funny 'cause actually as a.  You know, the outsourced, I always thought, Oh, you know, I always was really hesitant about asking, like sharing testimonials, sharing case studies. Cause I was like, do my clients really want to know that they outsource, you know, their social media or things like that.

And I was talking with one of my clients. I went and saw her in person and she said. No, it's awesome because people know that you have a serious business, like you mean business. You've, you've hired a team. You want to do better because you're bringing more brains into the situation. And it was a really good reframe.

And actually, if anyone's listening and they really struggled to get testimonials or share about their client work. It gave me this like level of, oh no, like they really love that. They want people to know that they outsource because that is just like, well, I really care about my business. Like you said before, I mean business.

Cause I'm like taking this really seriously as well. And, um, It allows you to kind of add that level of credibility to what you're doing because you're focusing on your zone of genius. Whereas I think a lot of times we always think, Oh, maybe people, you know, I think it's, it's mainly more so a female thing where we just want to do it all ourselves and, you know, be super woman, even though it's impossible to do.

And sometimes you just got to let go of things. But I found in my own business, it allowed me to be a better leader and freelancer for my clients as well. And it allows me to see two ends of it. So even as a leader, when I'm leading my freelancers, I go,  ah, well, how would that feel if I. I was them because I know what it feels like to be them.

So I'm very mindful of the language I use, how I give feedback, things like that. Because if my client, you know, just gave me, I don't, I know how I don't like to receive feedback. So it's always important to understand that as well from that different level to be like, well. I know that when a client asks me for this or does it in this way, it doesn't sit right.

So I want to make sure that I do it for my, my freelancers as well, which is good. Gives you that. It humbles you a little bit.  It does. And it's interesting too, because,  you know, like you said, like, It also presents an image and it says something about you as a business person. You know, I remember when in my copywriting business, when I expanded and I added a team and I had other copywriters and I was like, well, how do I do this, people are coming to me for me, right?

And how do I say, oh, well, you're not getting fully me, you're getting them. And then it occurred to me to talk about how much better the work was when two brains were on it. And then I ultimately looked at everything and saw everything. So you're getting, you're getting me in the big picture, but you're, we're, you're, we're getting more input and how rich that was.

And people, people were very excited. And I, you know, until I figured that out, I thought, Oh, this is going to hurt me. It's not good. You know, it's not going to work. How am I going to put it together?  But in fact.  It comes back to something I think is often true is positioning is so much of it, right? How you present something and how you position something, you know, as long as it's legit and it really genuinely adds value.

Um,  I think it's often really well received and we, you know, we can get very caught up in our head about, you know, you know, what it looks like or how, you know, how it works. But I think the whole outsourcing thing that you're talking about, I think it actually makes you appear very businesslike and smart and.

It's a good look. It's not a, you know, it's not something that you, you know, have to hide or, or feel ashamed of. Yeah. I love that you said that about, um, when you started to expand your copywriting business and I actually like to just ask a couple of questions about that because I, you know, obviously as service based providers, we can only go so far and serve as so many clients before we go,  should I bring more people into this to support me?

Right? And I had this exact thing happen to me and I went, yeah, I'm going to, and the first time I did. It didn't work as well as I wanted it to, but I learned so much. Um, and now I have my partner Mitch who, and he's very good at all the things I'm not good at. So like graphic design, visuals, video editing, all of that.

And that's actually elevated my business so much. And now when I. When I market myself on social media, it's mainly me. I do bring him in a little bit in the content. So, cause our dynamic is so unique and interesting because we are very different. He's very soft and like, I'm very, you know, let's do it.

Like I'm more the kind of masculine energy and he's very calm and, you know, very soft. spoken and doesn't really like being in front of the camera and all of that. And I think showing that dynamic has helped my business a lot as well, because I think people go. And before that I had a girl in my team who would do videos and people really liked seeing her as well, even though it was still me being the founder in the face, um, when I was showing up online, bringing a few of my team in, I think gives them like, Oh, that's really cool.

So, you know, I can, I have, and I could. Offer more services. And I sort of explained that like without Mitch, I can't do the visuals cause I'm not very good at it. And then also on your point, when you're overseeing, cause I oversee everything of my clients, it's. allowing me with that level of space to be more strategic about it rather than being in it and doing it and all the things.

So, um, I'm sure you probably want to add to that, but I just also want to ask, you know, when you got to that point of bringing more people in, what did that look like? How did you feel, um, in that process and how did you, what were some of the challenges you faced in, I guess, outsourcing some of the client work in building that copywriting business?

Cause I know a lot of people kind of at that point where they're like, well, I will have to at some stage, but. That's not me, I'm not the one doing it, so I feel really weird about it, and, um, yeah, I'd just love to know more about that, too.  Yeah, well, it's sort of attached to what we were talking about earlier, because the reason that evolved for me is because I had so much lead come, leads, I had so many leads coming in, I had so much inflow, and I had worked my ass off, frankly, to make that happen.

I mean, I'd been really consistent in my marketing, and now I had all this business coming at me, and I didn't want to turn it down.  And I, and I couldn't handle it. I mean, it's more than I could do as a, as a solo. And so I had to start to think about how do I take advantage of this? And I was, I've never been a fan of like paid referrals.

I'm happy to refer something to someone if they're right, but I don't want someone to pay me for it. That's just, I don't know. It just. That's,  that doesn't work in my sort of ecosystem and, and kind of thinking I find that a little icky. But, um, so, so what, what was I going to do? And so it seemed like the natural thing that made sense to me was, well, let me bring on some junior people who I can mentor and sort of give some of the more, like the simpler work if you will.

Um, and I'll, and I'll stay on the strategy and I'll oversee what they do. And it was interesting. Thank you. You know, because I thought, well, I can mentor them, it's beneficial for them, they can learn, I can, you know, sort of figure this puzzle out. It wasn't great,  because the people who weren't seasoned enough,  they might have been okay at their craft, but it was some of the things we were talking about earlier.

I couldn't count on them, they weren't reliable, um, it didn't fit with my brand, which was, you know, really excellent customer service, always being on time. It just, it wasn't, it just wasn't gelling for me. And so of course I thought, well, maybe this, this whole thing doesn't work. But what I decided to do next was I thought, what if, and I knew this because I had already been coaching too as a, you know, so I, I knew people and I knew what their pain points were and their problems and challenges were in their business.

And there were a number of people who did not want anything to do with clients. They didn't want to do marketing. They didn't want to do sales calls. They didn't, they were very happy to sit in their cave. If someone could feed them work, they would happily do it all day long. I love the client side. So I was like, okay, what if I could amplify that and have some really talented people so I didn't have to worry so much about reliability and quality.

And,  but I also really wanted to pay people fairly. I didn't want it to be A thing where they felt like, okay, because I'm only doing, you know, the work, the craft work, I can't make as much money. So what I decided to do was ask them to scope me.  So here's the project I have. What would you want for that?

And what they wanted for it turned out to be really reasonable inside of the fees that I was charging. And so suddenly it up leveled my entire business, because not only were they really good at their craft, some of them were great project managers. And some of these projects were complex and they had a lot of moving parts.

And so they were handling that, where I was handling the client side and vetting their work and looking it over. But it enabled me to do way more. I had a really reliable team. I kind of felt like I was getting away with something, you know, like, like how, like this shouldn't be so easy, but that, but it took a little while to, to put it together.

And then I was able to explain to clients how it worked, and they still didn't want to talk to the clients. But, you know, sometimes they had to be, like, sign an NDA, because I wasn't going to, you know, if a client required that, I wasn't going to, you know, pretend that person didn't exist. So I had to bring them into the equation a little bit.

So there were, like, some little things to iron out, but I hope I've answered your question. I feel like I kind of maybe went sideways, um, but that's what that looked like for me. And it, it, it. Settled into a really lovely pattern where I could just take on way more work and I was able to do the things that I really like.

They were doing what they liked. They were getting paid what they wanted to get paid and it was, it was a, you know, it was a very happy equation for, and I did that for years. Yeah, no, you definitely did. That's, that's awesome. I think a lot of people that are in this position go, okay, I get it. So, you know, you can really work, make it work for you.

But from my understanding is it definitely does take some mistakes along the journey. I know I've had that and, um, I feel like it's just a learning process. So I just want to quickly ask a follow up question for that. Just curious. So when you, um, were Obviously had the, your people that you could, they would, um, scope the work, give you the quote, and then obviously the client, and you sort of mentioned it a little bit before, but I want to touch on that, that sort of positioning of how you sold that, whether it was through your marketing, whatever that looked like through, you know, customer relationships, what was the sort of conversations that you were having with your customers so that they knew exactly what they were getting, what.

The, you know, what was the process and, and how did you find that a challenge or, you know, were people like, yep, cool. I know you sort of touched on it before, but I'd love to expand a little bit more on how that process went. Because I imagine a lot of us, as you said, like, oh, they're buying me, that's my brand.

And I know I've had questions with a lot of, um, VAs, social media marketers who want to start like expanding out a little bit and scaling their business because they want to help more people and they want, they like that customer facing. I know this is super relevant for me as well, but they like. How does that positioning go?

How do we market that or share that with our audience, with our clients? So they're like all on board.  Yeah. Well, it's interesting. I did not share it in my marketing. It was not something I talked about like that. I like had a micro agency or whatever you'd want to call it or a team,  but when people would come to me and it was often referrals at that point, I would just talk about it very openly.

I didn't at first. Cause I, again, I was like kind of. It was awkward. I didn't know how to talk about it, but I would say, you know, like, here's the thing. I have a small team and so, you know, I want you to know that like you came to me for me and you're getting me. I have a team of people that I've trained sort of in my, you know, my style, my philosophies, the way, like everything that you came to me for.

You're going to get and you're going to get, you know, you'll be talking to me directly. I'm overseeing everything. I'm the one who's going to put together the proposal. I'm the one who's going to, you know, all the things that I would do, I made very explicit and nobody, nobody cared. I mean, never had pushback ever.

Not once. Um, once I was able to say, Hey, here's how it is. Here's how it works. You know, when I was hemming and hawing and, you know, the two brains, like before I had that sort of  smooth.  I still didn't get any pushback, but it felt a little bit more awkward. I wasn't sure, you know, were they totally on board?

Did they feel weird? But as soon as I became fluent and was able to talk about it confidently and, and, and I actually did come to feel that they were getting better value.  Um, and people were like, Oh, that's cool. That's great. And I think they also,  As you said earlier, they saw me as almost more professional because I was now sort of, you know, quote, big enough to have a team and to need a team and to have other, other people around.

And I also, you know, and I would say you're going to work with me directly and I wanted to position it that way because I knew these people did not want to necessarily talk with clients. So, you know, I'm your, I'm your conduit. You don't have to worry about, you know, managing a bunch of relationships or getting emails from, you know, whoever.

Um, And I, I was able to make that a selling point  of the relationship while still, you know, letting them know that there was, there was a team in place and there were other people who had their,  You know, their best interests at heart. And, you know, I would say things to clients like, look, when you, when you hire me,  you get me and you're, you're actually renting space in my brain because I'm not just working on your project when I'm working on your project.

I'm thinking about it when I'm walking my dogs or when I'm cooking dinner and.  You know, and, and so, like, you've got me. You've fully got me. Everything else, it's sort of gravy. It's, it's extra. Um, but I'm bringing that to the table, because that's how we get the best job done for you. And like in the copywriting space, where I was doing a lot of strategy and a lot of funnel work, you know, I would tell them, we'll talk things over.

And, you know, sometimes my team will say, hmm, what if we did it that way? Or how, you know, how about, how about this? And this is how we've come up with, and I would give them sometimes specific examples. You know, that's how we took this client from here to here. Um, was because we, you know, we had the, um, I can't, oh, I, we had the third brain going, which, and I would explain that concept, you know, when two people get together, they each have their own brain power, but there's sort of a third brain of other ideas that, that are created, and we put that to work for you, you know, you get the benefit of all of this, and the people that I work with are carefully vetted, they're, you know, and I would talk about their credentials, but without, you know, Sort of naming them or bringing them in.

And that, that worked great. People were just thrilled. They just felt like, Oh, I came to you for you, but I'm getting you plus.  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, What one thing that I got from that as well is that space, you know, cause there's a massive thing about strategic thinking, right? And as a service based business owner, we're always doing the thing for our clients.

So you almost have to try and put a space in your calendar for strategic thinking for the outside the box ideas for things that aren't about the work you're doing. And if you are getting support. By outsourcing bits and pieces, they get that strategic thinking. And that was something I really want to bring into the work that I do.

And I've started doing that, but you know, when you're not actively always doing the thing, you've got that space. It's like why we have all the best ideas in the shower is because we've got space and we go, Oh yeah, that like, so it's like trying to build in that strategic thinking, which a lot of people is so.

Invaluable for so many business owners, because that's where the massive changes happen when you all have space for strategic thinking. So the business owner does, cause they're outsourcing the service. And then the head of the service based business, if they're sort of getting some support, they then also have.

That space for strategic thinking, which I think is so invaluable.  And you know, another piece of that that's really interesting is when you're a service provider and you come in the door of service provider, people don't always realize how strategic you are or how strategic you can be. And so when you now open that conversation, you know, people are delighted like, Oh, like I didn't even realize how much strategy was involved.

And it's kind of funny, like if you come in as the strategist and you can execute, you're seen as a hero. When you come in as the person who You know, creates the deliverable, but you can, but you can do the strategy. People are surprised like, Oh, Oh, like it's a, it's a whole different experience, but, but they really appreciate it.

Especially if you spell it out and explain, you know, what strategy. goes into this and that it's not just that you're creating deliverables that you have to do strategic thinking. And, you know, and I think that elevates you in their eyes as well, because not only do you have, you know, the ability to do it, it's, it's actually part of your process.

And I think p people love process and they love knowing that you've got one and they feel more well taken care of, which is part of delivering an excellent customer experience, which is how you get better or clients who pay more money.  It's really all of a piece, I think.  I love that. Oh my gosh. I've loved this conversation because it's so interesting to just like dive into this space where there's so much, like so many moving parts, right?

Like even if we are the service based business owner, whether it's you're doing content marketing or social media marketing, and you still want to build and grow your business because you've got that entrepreneurial mindset. And I love it. It's yeah, it's so much more than just like a transaction. Um, and.

Really, that's how you become really well known in your space. And that, as you say, that customer service, I feel like, you know, people always like just pump out all the work, make it happen, do it. But then also it doesn't fulfill you. You want to do something that lights you up and fulfills you. And I imagine when you sort of made that shift in your copywriting business, you went from like really loving this one thing that you did to just.

Loving all elements of it because you got to do different things like, you know, one day you're like a day in a week looks so different. One day you're doing like a strategic meeting with a client and the next day you're coordinating and project managing and then you might do a little bit of writing here and there and then you, you kind of using all different parts of your brain.

And I think that's what creates so much more fulfillment. and allows you to be in business for so much longer because you've got, you know, if you do the same thing time after time after time, you might go, okay, this is getting a little bit like repetitive. So I, um, I love that. And I just want to just quickly ask, um, going back to kind of when we're talking about, you know, showing up online and, and building that business.

Um, when you recommend sort of like, or you've had conversations with these sort of online business owners, freelancers, VAs, and. They're sort of looking to create this personal brand. Is that what it is? Or is it just, oh, well, I'll put my portfolio up there and, you know, is it more of a nurturing lead generation thought leadership or here's what I do?

You know, here's how I help kind of thing. What, what sort of, or is it a mix of the both? I'd love to know kind of what advice you've given in the past for freelancers just looking to elevate or do something on social media just to bring a bit of brand presence.  Yeah, it's a great question. And I'm,  I hate to say this, but I'm going to say it.

I'm kind of not a fan of the portfolio. Um, and I know. I think it's a real comforting tool for people, especially when they're new. Um, but I, I think it's, it's just so, it's a little piece of the equation, right? And I, and I want to assume, or I want the, this, you know, a freelancer to assume that they're really good at their craft, right?

And that, that's a given. And yeah, sure, sometimes you want to share, you know, share samples or show people what you've done. But I feel like, like what we've been talking about, it's like you really want to deliver an experience. And you want them to know like everything that's, that's a part of that, um, I don't know the portfolio.

It's almost like a fast food equation or something, right? It's like you look at the menu and like, you know, here's, here's what you can order. And, you know,  and you know, it's like, you know, one and done, you get your thing, you drive away where, uh, You know, if you can, you know, talk to the client and talk about the value and talk about like sort of the more intrinsic pieces of what you do, that's how you develop the longterm relationships.

That's how you get the repeat work. That's how you sign the retainers, right? Cause there are no, it's kind of like where we started the conversation. Like if you're buying on price, you're buying on price. If you're buying on a perceived deliverable, you're buying on a perceived deliverable. You're not buying the experience, you're not buying the person.

They're not that differentiated, right? Because even if you look at the work, it's like, well, the work might look good or seem good, but so does the work over here. So like now I'm back to price.  Very often, right? And so where if I'm having a conversation and I'm demonstrating expertise and I'm talking about the experience, there's a lot more for the client to, you know, kind of grasp onto and hang their hat on  and it makes it easier to choose you.

And, and to want what you have, you're no longer, you know, do I want it with cheese or not, right? It's, it's, it's more like, oh, what, what other value can you deliver? And how can you, you know, craft this to my taste and my interests and my needs? Um, and I'll just say one more thing on that. I mean, there are definitely clients who just want to buy on price and portfolio.

I think though, as the freelancer, you burn out on doing that. Um, and you risk the thing you love becoming the thing that you hate. And, and that's just a crime we don't want to commit.  That's so powerful because it's so true. Oh my gosh. It's so true. And I think like, you know, when you do what you love, obviously you have to do it.

a lot and repetitively, right? And you got to talk about it a lot.  I think there's so much power in someone knowing how passionate you are about what you do. And if you can show that in your online presence, I think that's what it is, right? Like, cool. You can create awesome graphics. Great. But what is that experience that I get when I work with you?

And what is all the knowledge and expertise that you have? If you, Ditch the portfolio content and start creating a series of content sharing, you know, about. The details around graphic design and, and even going to that level further and talking about marketing and brand, you know, like going that level up, you know, what you do kind of the people go, Oh my God, they know so much about this sort of stuff and that's what I want.

And I love that you say that if you just go off price and deliverable, you will burn out because I imagine there's a lot of people doing that and it's that feast or famine that you spoke about before. And we don't want that. We want to have consistent and you know, what's awesome when you have. a retainer client that works with you long term.

It's so much easier to get more results, right? I always say that to my potential clients, you know, it's, it's three month minimum, but I would love to build a long term partnership with you because that's where we get the most results. Like thing, magic happens after, you know, the, the, the contract minimum has ended, right?

Because you learn more about their business. As you say, you think about it when you're walking your dog, you think about it all the time, you, and they, and you become so invested in their vision. that you bring so much more to the table. So I love that you said that because I think, yeah, this whole episode has got my brain going.

Um, I could talk about this for hours, but we better wrap up because we're just on time. So thank you so much, Amy, for joining. I imagine you have something parting to say, but how can people find you and connect with you?  Um, best way to find me is my website. It's  amyposner. com. Um, I have a weekly newsletter and that's where I sort of share all my, my best stuff and my best secrets.

Um,  and that's, you know, yeah, that's, that's the best way to connect with me. I'm also on LinkedIn at, you know, Amy Posner, business growth mentor. And I, I, I post there a lot too, but my, my very best stuff I, I save for my weekly newsletter. So cool. Yeah. We'll put that in the show notes. The newsletter is always the best thing.

You get your tea, you read it, you get value. I love it. I love a good newsletter. So we'll definitely put that in the show notes. So thank you so much. Thanks for having me. This was, this was really fun. I told you, business owner, freelancer, whatever your title is, it is extremely helpful. And I think.

Everyone can learn from what Amy had to share and I've said it, you know, we have to walk the walk, we have to show up, we have to share our business and really easy ways to do that is to create some sort of strategy to support you, to help you. So if you need that strategy and support, we have our audio guide, you can check it out.

But I hope you got a lot of value from Amy's words. I got a lot out of it as well, especially as a business owner, a freelancer, all the things, there's lots of questions that I asked for me  and it was super helpful. But be a content queen or king and remember that developing your strategy and story develops your business, not just for your clients, but for you as well.

Thank you so much for joining me on this flight. Stamp your passport. Please don't forget to share this with your business and entrepreneurial friends. You can do this by adding it to your Insta stories. And tagging me at content queen Mariah, or just simply tell me about it. You do rate and review on whatever platform you listen to is on does help me get this message out there and bring more amazing guests on like Amy.

So yeah, follow me on Instagram, Tik TOK. Let me know any episodes you want me to cover. I'd absolutely love to love hearing what you want to listen to and I'll talk to you soon. Bye. 

PodcastMariah MacInnesmarketing, marketing advice, how to be authentic online, business ownerComment